John Marmion
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| Charts | Ancestors of Harriet Hanson Robinson Louis IV "d'Outremer," King of France, to Captain Thomas Bradbury |
John Marmion, son of William Marmion and Matilda (…), was born at Checkenden, Oxfordshire, England, 1260.1,2 He died at Checkenden, between 1330 and 1331.1
John married Margery de Notingham, daughter of Henry de Notingham, at Notingham, England, about 1273.1,3,2
Wilson points out that the note in AR7/8 was not quite conclusive, but provides further evidence that the descent of John Marmion from the Marmions of Checkenden is correct.
John married Margery de Notingham, daughter of Henry de Notingham, at Notingham, England, about 1273.1,3,2
Wilson points out that the note in AR7/8 was not quite conclusive, but provides further evidence that the descent of John Marmion from the Marmions of Checkenden is correct.
I have been fortunate to get Dr. Thomas G. Barnes, Professor of Law and of History at the University of California at Berkeley, to read the record of the 1270 lawsuit as printed in "Abbreviato Placitorum", p. 182.
He agreed that the inference of descent made by Wrottesley was reasonable given the facts, the chronology, and the names. But he also agreed, as Neil Thompson had said in his critical review of Threlfall's book, that the word "antecessoris" could mean either predecessor or ancestor. This document would not absolutely prove that Robert II was not a collateral relative of the Checkenden Marmions.
However Professor Barnes thought the line of descent was proven by the monks' language in 1339 when they quitclaimed the advowson of Checkenden to John Marmion. (Boarstall Carticulary No. 8.)
"… Et ne anime antecessorum dicti Iohannis vel sua penam vel periculum molestiarum et iniuriarum occasione quacunque predecessoribus nostris et ecclesie nostre ac eciam nobis, ut premittitur, hactenus illatarum, quod absit, incurrant, nos mera et unanimi voluntate perfecte compuncti intuitu caritatis animas antecessorum predicti Iohannis ac eciam suam in pleno nostro capitulo ab omni reatus vinculo, quo verisimiliter credi potest ipsas occasione premissa merito constringi, in quantum in nobis est absolvimus per presentes. In cuius [&c. sealing], data in capitulo nostro Coventrie die Lune in festo conversionis sancti Pauli apostoli anno domini MCCC tricesimo octavo."
"… And so that the souls of the ancestors of the said John should not, God forbid, incur either penalty or peril of annoyance and injury by whatever cause by our predecessors and our church and also us, as mentioned before, because of those matters hitherto mentioned, we, completely motivated by a pure and unanimous desire in consideration of charity, insofar as we are able, absolve for the present the souls of the ancestors of the foresaid John, as well as his own, by our full chapter, from every constraint of guilt by which it can be reasonably believed that they were constrained on the foresaid occasion."
The absolution of the soul of John, as well of as his ancestors, for the sin committed by Robert I proves a blood line; not just a succession in the position of lord of Checkenden.4,5,6
He agreed that the inference of descent made by Wrottesley was reasonable given the facts, the chronology, and the names. But he also agreed, as Neil Thompson had said in his critical review of Threlfall's book, that the word "antecessoris" could mean either predecessor or ancestor. This document would not absolutely prove that Robert II was not a collateral relative of the Checkenden Marmions.
However Professor Barnes thought the line of descent was proven by the monks' language in 1339 when they quitclaimed the advowson of Checkenden to John Marmion. (Boarstall Carticulary No. 8.)
"… Et ne anime antecessorum dicti Iohannis vel sua penam vel periculum molestiarum et iniuriarum occasione quacunque predecessoribus nostris et ecclesie nostre ac eciam nobis, ut premittitur, hactenus illatarum, quod absit, incurrant, nos mera et unanimi voluntate perfecte compuncti intuitu caritatis animas antecessorum predicti Iohannis ac eciam suam in pleno nostro capitulo ab omni reatus vinculo, quo verisimiliter credi potest ipsas occasione premissa merito constringi, in quantum in nobis est absolvimus per presentes. In cuius [&c. sealing], data in capitulo nostro Coventrie die Lune in festo conversionis sancti Pauli apostoli anno domini MCCC tricesimo octavo."
"… And so that the souls of the ancestors of the said John should not, God forbid, incur either penalty or peril of annoyance and injury by whatever cause by our predecessors and our church and also us, as mentioned before, because of those matters hitherto mentioned, we, completely motivated by a pure and unanimous desire in consideration of charity, insofar as we are able, absolve for the present the souls of the ancestors of the foresaid John, as well as his own, by our full chapter, from every constraint of guilt by which it can be reasonably believed that they were constrained on the foresaid occasion."
The absolution of the soul of John, as well of as his ancestors, for the sin committed by Robert I proves a blood line; not just a succession in the position of lord of Checkenden.4,5,6
Family | Margery de Notingham b. aft. 1263, d. abt. 1300 |
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| This person was last edited on | 18 Oct 2021 |
Citations
- [S95] John Brooks Threlfall, The Ancestry of Thomas Bradbury (1611 - 1695) and His Wife Mary (Perkins) Bradbury (1615 - 1700) of Salisbury, Massachusetts, 3rd ed. (Madison, Wisconsin: p.p., 2006), 289-300, further cited as Threlfall, The Ancestry of Thomas Bradbury.
- [S520] Frederick Lewis Weis, Walter Lee Sheppard Jr., William R. Beall and Kaleen E. Beall, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America before 1700… ., 8th ed. (Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., 2004), 246A-30, further cited as Weis, Sheppard, Beall, and Beall, Ancestral Roots, 8th ed.
- [S180] John B. Threlfall, "Thomas Bradbury Ancestry Table Additions," The American Genealogist 57 (Apr 1981): 98-99, further cited as Threlfall, "Bradbury Ancestry Table Additions."
- [S748] Alan B. Wilson, "Re: MARMIONS in the ancestry of Thomas Bradbury", soc.genealogy.medieval, newsgroup, 14 Apr 1997, https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval, accessed Sep 2021.
- [S520] Weis, Sheppard, Beall, and Beall, Ancestral Roots, 8th ed., 246A-30 and end note.
- [S2174] Gary Boyd Roberts, The Royal Descents of 900 Immigrants to the American Colonies, Quebec, or the United States Who Were Themselves Notable or Left Descendants Notable in American History (two vols., Baltimore, Maryland: Genealogical Publishing, 2018), 877-878, further cited as Roberts, RD900.